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January 27th, 2012 05:58 PM | by mike | acne.
1. Stem cell research that can lead to life saving medical discoveries. While embriotic stem cells are helpful, they do not produce enough to meet modern demands, as scientists and doctors have confirmed. That is why they all gave their blessing on the president’s executive order to repeal the ban on research. If your child was terminally ill and the only way to save him/her was the stem cells from an unborn fetus, would you still think that the unborn fetus should take priority over your already living child? Tell me yes, and I’ll call you a liar.
2. If we outlaw abortion and force children to be born to a mother that does not want them, abusive and neglectful households would increase tenfold, as well as an overcrowding of foster homes that we can not handle.
3. Abortions won’t completly go away, back alley abortions will be a whole new organized crime industry that can me created only by a ban on abortions. And, since many of these mothers who get these underground abortions end up in the ER, your tax dollars are still paying for them.
4. Anyone seeking an abortion could simply go to Canada and have one, and since the US cannot control foreign law, the mother cannot be procecuted after returning here.
5. It would be imposible to prosecute anyone who has an abortion or any doctor who performs one. Whether your pro life or pro choice, we can all agree that abortion is a divided issue, and the jury will be just as divided, meaning twelve people will never convict, and DAs across the country will realize this, and stop trying to prosecute, because they know the jury will not be in consensus and they dont want unneccesary losses on their records.
6. In order to outlaw abortion, the laws must be rewritten to make a fetus legally a human, does that mean a person’s date of birth legally becomes their time of conception and not time of delivery, and when they come out of the womb they are legally a nine month old child?
Stem cell research can be done with adult cells, they don’t have to be from a fetus. As to the rest of your diatribe, murder in never a choice.
Please reserve the “chickenhawk” or “moonbat” comments for another forum. In addition, I recognize also that racism and xenophobia exist but I don’t want to discuss that in this particular question. I want to understand how one can reconcile what I see to be two conflicting ideologies.
OK let me explain my confusion. Judging from the Q/A I see here on yahoo, many conservatives are against the reform bill because of these main reasons.
1. Cost of supporting illegal immgrants.
2. A belief in absolute compliance with America’s laws.
3. A belief that America’s jobs are “American property” and therefore should be protected from theft.
Now here is the the problem. We are now on a humanitarian mission in Iraq.
1. The cost of that mission surpasses immigration costs tenfold.
2. Trying to kill American soldiers is a lot worse than sneaking across a border.
3. Iraq will offer nothing in return for the investment. However, illegals brought into the fold of legality, will.
Wouldn’t it be smarter to “invest” at home?
If you have compassion for Iraqis, why not our southern neighbors?
See the conflicts?
Okay Q-Burt but all those things that you speak of equate to a dollar figure that is surpassed by quite a hefty amount in Iraq. If we ended the war in Iraq and paid for the cost of illegals to get on board here in America, It would cost us anywhere from 80 to 100 billion dollars per year less than it does the other way around. In other words, Pro immigration/Anti-War cost about 20-30Billion per year with an eventual return. Pro war/Anti-Immigration cost about 90 – 110 billion per year with no chance of a return.
Enough with the rhetoric please. We all know that immigrants are coming here to improve their lives. This is not an “invasion”.
An invasion is a military action consisting of armed forces of one geopolitical entity entering territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering territory, altering the established government, for humanitarian purposes, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, it can be used as a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion
Why are you: For every criminal you post there are hundred more that are not and they are doing positive things for this country.
http://memp.pratt.duke.edu/downloads/americas_new_immigrant_entrepreneurs.pdf
http://buzz.greatfxbusinesscards.com/immigrant-entrepreneurs.htm
http://www.du.edu/~asomoza/oic/images/economy.pdf
Q-Burt I have researched the money issue thoroughly. Do you have a source for that figure or did you make it up? Yea I thought so.
War cost source here: http://www.costofwar.com/
Immigration cost source here: http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html
I showed you mine. Now show me yours.
I don’t know but I think the question is why are so many conservatives against illegal immigration issues yet support the war?
I think it has to do partly with a territorial issue. “This land” is “theirs”, the white Americans as they believe. Not the illegals and that’s all that matters. They are the issue they are the invaders. They are the criminals and the ones committing the crime against all humanity!!!!!!!! It doesn’t make sense to me because I have read SOOO many of their answers and so many talk about how illegal immigrants don’t work, yet so many white Americans talk about how they employ them for them doing their lawn maintenance!! It’s OK for that but not for them to be here???? How logical is that mentality!?!?!?!?!?! Also the mentality that illegal immigrants do not work therefore not contributing to the economy is ludicrous. They do, they work that is what they are here for. People just need to get educated. When they stereotype and complain that too many live in one house… who cares, that is how they are able to get by.
As for Iraq, the cost if far greater with that then with illegal immigration and no one seems to look at that! It doesn’t seem to be a big deal because it is not a fight for land here. They are not on American soil. If they were trying to immigrate here it would be. In reality we are all paying for the war and should be a big deal for a fake war. For a President who fraudulently began a war!! Harboring weapons of mass destruction… ahhh ummm no, it has always been for the oil!
I think the issue of starting a war on false pretenses and putting innocent lives at stake both soldiers and men, women and children is alot more unlawful then people who are here trying to find jobs! Doesn’t anyone grasp that idea? It is not that hard to process. It’s common sense!
Well … at least I think so…
again a good question…
If a seignior stole either an ox or a sheep or an ass or a pig or a boat, if it belonged to the church (or) if it belonged to the state, he shall make thirtyfold resitution; if it belonged to a private citizen, he shall make good tenfold. If the thief does not have sufficient to make restitution, he shall be put to death
If a seignior made a breach in a house, they shall put him to death in front of that breach and wall him in.
If he did not cultivate the field, but has neglected (it), he shall give grain to the owner of the field on the basis of those adjoining it; furthermore, the field which he neglected he shall break up with mattocks, harrow and return to the owner of the field.
If a shepherd has not come to an agreement with the owner of a field to pasture sheep on the grass, but has pastured sheep on the field, without the consent of the owner of the field, when the owner of the field harvests his field, the shepherd who pastured the sheep on the field without the consent of the owner of the field shall give in addition twenty kur of grain per eighteen iku to the owner of the field.
If outlaws have congregated in the establishment of a women wine seller and she has not arrested those outlaws and did not take them to the palace, that wine seller shall be put to death.
can you tell me please which each one means in a simplified version.
1. Cattle rustlers will be punished with a fine equivalent to thirty times as much as he stole if the rustled animals belonged to the Church or to the State. If the animals belonged to a private citizen, then he will pay ten times as much. So if he stole one goat he will pay 30 goats or ten goats respectively. If he doesn’t have enough goats to pay the fine, he gets the death penalty.
2. Breaking and entering will always be punishable by death. The execution shall take place in front of the house where the events took place and buried there.
3. Peasants living from the land of a landowner who fail to cultivate it, will pay the owner an amount of grain equivalent to the grain that other fields have collected. Then he will break up and level the field and return it to the owner.
4. It is illegal to graze your animals on a land that does not belong to you. If you do anyway, then you will be fined with grain. (The amount is hard to establish, but I think it is saying that the ratio is 20 measures of grain for each 17 measures of pasture harvested.)
5. Owners of an establishment where wine is sold have the obligation to denounce all outlaws that enter their establishment. Not doing so is punishable by death.
To: The Governament of the United Stes of America
From: The Citizens of the United States of America
We The People During the course of human history, there have always been wars, and despots who rule without care to the people they are supposed to serve. Over the preceding decades, history has recorded the erosion of an experiment so grand in scale, so beautifully conceived, that no other form of government in the history of the world could lay claim to the peace and prosperity that was in the original promise to it’s people. We, the People of the United States, do declare that the current government no longer represents us or our interests. We hereby make the following statements:
1) The wars that you have pressed in our name, from Vietnam to the current Iraq War, were prosecuted in the name of furthering peace, freedom, and democracy. We know now that you have lied to us, and that these wars were perpetrated in the furtherance of corporate gain.
2) You have violated the laws of our country with your illegal wiretapping programs, laying bare our most personal and intimate moments and information about us, in order to further control our thoughts and movement, and to perpetuate the fear among our populace.
3) You have passed illegal legislation without the consent of We the People, in the forms of the Patriot Act, and the ensuing Patriot Act II. You have continually passed further bills and legislation, again without the consent of We the People, in order to dismantle the very Constitution of the United States, thereby depriving us of the protections that our forefathers had the clarity of mind to foresee.
4) You have plundered our nation’s treasure by giving absolute power to a non government entity, ie; the Federal Reserve Bank. The issuance of money by a private entity who then sells that money back to us with interest has had the effect of enslaving us all to a worthless monetary system. You have further allowed for the removal of our nation’s store of gold and silver to this same private entity, albeit for “safekeeping”.
5) You have fostered and sheltered a culture of corruption in our nation’s capitol city. Bribery and Lobbying are rampant, and have increased tenfold under your current regime’s watch.
6) You have failed utterly to defend the sovereignty of the borders of the United States, and actually idly stand by as invaders from foreign lands cross our borders with impunity.
7) You have slashed funding for social safety net programs across the board, causing harm, sickness, homelessness, starvation, and even death to a great number of our fellow countrymen and women.
Because of these egregious acts we hereby make the following demands of you, our elected public servants:
1) Immediately and fully release and disclose all documents and information pertaining to the events on the 11th of September, in the year 2001.
2) Immediately declare a halt to the hostilities in the countries where our brave soldiers are dying and being maimed, not in the cause of freedom, but for the corporations unto whom you are beholden.
3) Forthwith and immediately cease and desist your illegal domestic spying programs.
4) Immediately and forthwith discard and repeal all Patriot Act legislation, along with any and all related bills.
5) We demand the removal of our nation’s treasure from the custody of the Federal Reserve Bank, and have it returned to the people’s depository in Fort Knox, Kentucky, and other secure People’s depositories.
6) Immediately halt and cease any and all lobbying efforts by private entities seeking to influence our nation’s policy by bribery and coercion.
7) We demand a secure border. We demand the halt of any plans to merge the United States with Canada and Mexico, forming the Greater North American Union. We demand that you withdraw us from the WTO treaties, NAFTA treaties, CAFTA treaties, and all other treaties that are destroying and outsourcing jobs from our country.
We demand the immediate reinstitution of monies to be allocated for programs for the poor. We demand the defense budget be re-examined and the money saved from cutting un needed defense programs be diverted to stop the starvation of children in our country.
We further demand the dismantlement of the “faith based” initiatives, as they have been proven ineffective and corrupt. These declarations are non-negotiable, and We the People make these demands in good conscience and with conviction. We state further that should criminal activity be discovered, that the perpetrators be brought to justice, regardless of the office he or she may hold at this time. We the People remind our government that dissent is a right guaranteed to us in our forefather’s framework and we exercise that right here and now with these Statements and Demands.
Written and Signed this day, the 13th day of October, in the year 2006.
agree or disagree
Your heart is in the right place, but you show moments of incredible naivete. You need to do more thorough research on many points. Yes, I agree with the notion that we need to curb lobbyist influence. We also need more accountability from our elected officials. We need more direct control over what they do in our name.
Wars happen. They always have and always will, period! As nice as the thought is, we will never have a world love-in. Every conflict the U.S. has ever gotten involved with as not been for the sole benefit of big business. Stating such absurdities only serves to diminish any credibility you have built up.
There’s a pretty good start here, but your arguments need a lot more polish.